CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, hosts Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor discuss the Cavs’ recent victory over the Indiana Pacers, highlighting the team’s focus and adjustments.

Takeaways:

• The Cavs displayed a heightened focus and intensity in their recent game.
• Donovan Mitchell set the tone with a strong first half performance.
• Kenny Atkinson’s adjustments have been crucial to the team’s success this season.
• The use of zone defense effectively neutralized the Pacers’ offense in the second half.
• Darius Garland emerged as a clutch performer in the fourth quarter, as he has throughout the beginning of the year.
• The Cavs backcourt duo is learning to play off each other effectively.
• Kenny Atkinson is recognized as a problem solver for the team.
• The Cavs’ ability to adapt to different game situations is a necessity, especially come playoff time.
• Evan Mobley’s offensive growth has elevated the ceiling of the Cavs.
• The Cavs are difficult to beat when their core players are in sync.
• The upcoming game against OKC is highly anticipated.

Listen using the player below:

You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.

Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And we’re coming to you guys after the Cavs’ latest win, the 34-5 after their 127-117 win over the Indiana Pacers. And it was a revenge game. They got back at the same team that they lost to on Sunday. And Chris, this one,

was a back and forth affair. We talked a lot about the Oklahoma City Thunder game being a beautiful game, something that had a lot of energy to it. It didn’t have the same kind of hype to it, but what was the energy like in GameBridge Fieldhouse and being able to witness a game that was such a back and forth contest?

Chris (00:51.202)

Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is you saw a different level of focus and intensity and attention to detail and all those different things from the Cavs right from the very beginning of it, Ethan. You could sense it at shoot around earlier today, too. Donovan wasn’t smiling as much. He wasn’t cracking jokes. He was more locked in. And I think he understood and he even mentioned this after the game tonight. What happened Sunday was not representative of the Cavs. That was not representative.

of Donovan Mitchell. For them to not score 100 points, that’s just not who they are. For them to have as bad of a defensive showing in the second half of that game against the Pacers who didn’t even have Tyrese Halliburton, that’s not who they’ve been this year. But who they’ve been is a team that doesn’t let these things compound. It’s a team that’s able to bounce back, make the proper adjustments, lock back in.

turn their focus the way that it needs to be turned. And Darius Garland and a couple of the other guys in the locker room tonight called Sunday a quote unquote wake up call. And I think it was good for them to have that wake up call going into this grueling road trip, Indiana, Oklahoma City, Minnesota. And you just sensed a different level of focus from Dottavon Mitchell specifically and from the Cavs in general. But Dottavon was the tone setter. And I think the fact that they were coming off a loss

in which he didn’t play well, in which they didn’t give their best against Indiana, it got Donovan’s attention and it got this team’s attention in a different kind of way.

Ethan Sands (02:29.948)

And Chris, absolutely right. mean, he got off to a great start. We’ve seen it a couple times from Donovan, but not to this extent. He had 19 points in the first quarter. That is another milestone for him. I believe it ties these, no, it’s the best that he had in an opening quarter this season, 19 points. And then he had 27 points at halftime. So you talk about the amount of understanding that

We’ve always talked about this season that Dottie Mitchell has gotten off the ball, allowed the supporting cast around him to be great. But today he sensed the moment, as you said, at shoot around, he was more locked in, sensed the moment, sensed that he needed to take over, especially from the start when they were able, without Tyrese Halliburton, to go into a four-core press from the jump rather than the Pacers waiting until halftime to implement that. And Chris, what do you think the main difference was for the Cavs?

Even though they did struggle with it at times tonight, they had a better understanding and better output when it came to dealing with the Pacers, full court press and just overall pressure at the point of attack tonight.

Chris (03:39.394)

they knew it was coming and they were better prepared for it. Kenny Atkinson mentioned in his pregame tonight, Ethan, that, you know, Rick Carlisle going with the lineup that he went to to start the third quarter because Tyrese Halliburton was hurt to do that on Sunday, caught the Cavs off guard. It caught Kenny Atkinson off guard. And he said, you know, that was a great move by Rick and it really, really worked for them. It gave them a jolt, but the Cavs were prepared for it this time. They knew.

you know, around 515 tonight that Ben Shepard was going to be in the starting lineup instead of Tyrese Halliburton. And they saw that for a second half against Indiana on Sunday. They knew that Indiana was going to pressure them full court. There were times in the first quarter, at least at the beginning of the game, that Donovan was bringing the ball up the floor. It wasn’t Darius because Darius was getting hounded, but Donovan was bringing it up the court.

and they just weren’t as aggressive defensively against Donovan. I think because of that, you saw some of the bigs coming into the back court to set screens to free them up or screen higher once they crossed half court. So just the subtle adjustments that the Cavs knew they had to make in this type of matchup. And I think that’s what it also shows about this Cavs team, Ethan, is that

They can find solutions and they’re equipped to have solutions. You know what I mean? Like they have the personnel to combat different things that these opponents are going to throw at them. They have a level of recognition to combat these things that teams are going to throw at them. So they’re just better equipped to come up with these answers. They were a little bit slow to do it in the second half against Indiana on Sunday and you give the Pacers credit and Kenny Atkinson said,

put that on me, like I own it. I didn’t do a good enough job from a coaching standpoint of having us prepared and providing them the solutions during the game. But they were able to turn their focus toward this game, understanding what was coming from Indiana and they combated it. And even though like Indiana was like in the game and they were battling throughout the entire game and it was a one point game at halftime.

Chris (05:58.466)

The Cavs were in control of this one basically from the opening tip. And it’s that level of aggressiveness, that level of focus, that level of determination. They didn’t let their guard down in any sort of way. And they were ready for everything that the Pacers were going to throw at them. And on top of that, they threw some wrinkles at Indiana that the Pacers couldn’t deal with. Mainly the zone defense in the second half.

which completely neutralized Pascal Siakam, who was at the center of the Pacers offensive attack in the first half. In the first half, he was powering through Dean Wade. He was exploiting mismatches. He was the second best player on the floor behind Donovan Mitchell, and he had 21 points in the first half. And he was the offense for the Pacers. In the second half, he was one of five. He had two points.

because he just couldn’t function against Cleveland zone in Indiana, couldn’t function against Cleveland zone the same kind of way. So that was another feather in the cap of Kenny Atkinson going to the zone, understanding that, you know, Siakam was having his way and TJ McConnell was getting into the paint and Andrew Nemhard was getting into the paint. And that really stopped, you know, everything that the Pacers were able to do against the Cavs in the first half.

Ethan Sands (07:20.274)

And I agree, Chris. mean, I think it’s become a buzzword now for the Cavs solution. Like what Kenny Atkinson has been able to do on a game to game basis, but also in game, mid game, being able to make adjustments on the fly. And we talked about that as a big portion, not only of this Indiana Pacers two game series where they played a home and road, but also the Oklahoma city thunder series where they played each other or are going to play each other for the second time in almost like a week.

Chris (07:27.278)

you

Ethan Sands (07:49.052)

in six days, I believe it was. So I think it’s definitely interesting to see how Kenny Atkinson has been able to make adjustments, but also game to game, which we’ve wanted to see, especially with playing teams very close together. It’s a lot like a playoff series. And he’s mentioned that, Rick Carlisle mentioned that, and I think it’s definitely interesting. But when I was mentioning earlier, when I said it was a back and forth affair, it was an affair of runs. Like both teams were able to go…

to each other’s scoring options or they were just possessions where they were literally going back and forth up the court without anybody being able to get a stop or without anybody being able to put the ball in the basket. But you’re right. mean, Indiana led the game for just 11 seconds. So, or in the first half. So if you talk about how often the Cavs were able to do what they wanted to with the ball in their hands, I think it’s just notable.

what the Cavs have been able to exploit in other teams. And obviously, you mentioned the zone, and I think it’s really important to mention that Max Struess was a main part of that and able to not only implement himself into something that we learned earlier in the season, he was helping install, but I feel like it allowed him to be comfortable on the floor in a defense where he was up against mismatches with Pascal Siakam at times. And obviously we have to also mention Pascal was making tough

shots in the first half. He was really, really good and a lot of fun to watch. But from the Cavs perspective, having Max Drews and Dean Wade and Evan Mobley majority of the time as the five men in those zone lineups being able to neutralize Pascal was huge. And then you saw Max Drews be able to get out into transition and get a few buckets. we know how, even though he might say that making shots doesn’t give him confidence, making shots gives

Chris (09:13.666)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (09:41.531)

Anybody confidence Chris

Chris (09:43.892)

The other guy at the top of the zone is Karis Levert and his activity, his energy, his quickness, his hands, his ability to disrupt and get into the passing lanes, his ability to just recover as quickly as he can because he is so quick, because he is so fast, because he is so athletic. Having him at the top of the zone is a really good thing for the Cavs as well. And a couple of different guys brought that up.

when they were talking about the effectiveness of their zone. But look, this is going to be a staple for the Cavs moving forward. It’s going to be a staple of their defense. They’re going to try different things. They’re going to try and be as unpredictable on the defensive end as they are on the offensive end. And they’re going to have to have, you know, a bunch of different things that they can go to depending on a matchup in a playoff series, depending on the opponent in a playoff series. And they have learned throughout the course of this season,

that the zone is an effective weapon for them. They are the third most zone heavy team in the entire NBA, behind Miami and Philadelphia. So it’s not just something that Kenny Atkinson throws out there against Indiana, just randomly, right? This is part of who the Cavs are. They don’t use it as much as Miami. Miami leads the league in zone possessions by a wide, wide margin.

But it’s part of the Cavs DNA on the defensive end of the floor. They like their man-to-man. They like their switching. They’ve gone to a box and won. They’ve done a triangle and two this year, but they also do zone. The third heaviest zone team in the NBA. And if it’s going to continue to be effective the way that it was tonight against Indiana, the way that it has been in the past against Oklahoma City.

the way that it worked against Boston at various points, you know, that’s going to be a coup for this defense because it takes the opposing offense out of rhythm. It makes them really, really uncomfortable. And not everybody has the personnel to attack a zone the same kind of way. And Indiana just didn’t have the personnel capable of attacking the zone the way that they needed to. Part of it was they didn’t have Tyrese Haliburton, but I mean, they were flashing Andrew Nemhard to the free throw line.

Chris (12:05.934)

They were flashing Pascal Siakam to the free throw line. They were flashing Miles Turner to the free throw. They were trying a bunch of different things to combat Cleveland’s own. But when they went to it in the third quarter, this game again, just like Sunday’s, was decided in the third quarter. And it wasn’t plus 19 for the Pacers this time. It was plus 10 in favor of the Cavs. And they held Indiana under 30 points in that quarter. They held Indiana.

under 30 points in both quarters in the second half when the Cavs leaned on the zone more frequently. So to have this as like another thing that they can go to and be effective with it is a really, really important thing for the future of the Cavs.

Ethan Sands (12:52.126)

My favorite thing about the second half, obviously the third quarter, which I’ll touch on some stats about that in a second, but like not only being able to reverse the script or flip the script that Kenny Atkinson had from the previous game and saying, oh, we got caught off guard in the second half and say, oh, we’re going to catch them off guard with his zone, but also understanding the personnel that they have that you mentioned. Like Tyrese Halliburton being out allows the Pacers to play a different style of defense.

that helps them attack at the point of attack to be more long, more lengthy, more in the passing lanes and more disruptive. But it also takes away one of their best scores. It takes away one of their best scores, shooters. And when you talk about how the three-point line can be a weapon against the zone, depending on how the ball is moving and they didn’t have one of their best three-point shooters and someone that can disrupt that on the offensive end, that’s the different caveat that you have. again,

Feather in the capital of Kenny Atkinson realizing that this is a situation where you can utilize a certain situate a certain lineup in a certain scheme But also understanding that in a different series, which he talked about in a press conference the other day like Sometimes they’re gonna be players that are out and that doesn’t Like that doesn’t mean anything to the next game if you don’t play them right next to it

Chris (14:11.694)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (14:17.116)

because if you don’t have the same information or the same players, you have to go with a different lineup. You have to go with a different scheme, a different rotation, all those other things. But as you mentioned, that third quarter is so important for the Cavs and it had been the Achilles heel for them the last five games, although they had lost just one of those games, right? So, I mean, the Cavs had allowed at least 30 points in their last five third quarters in all but one of those contests. Cleveland was also able to put up

28 points or more of their own. The one time that they didn’t was against the Pazers on Sunday when the Cavs scored just 18 points in the third quarter. So then you talk about them breaking that streak. scored 38 points and held Indiana at 28 points in the third quarter. it was like before today’s game, they had lost their last five third quarters, right? So I definitely think it’s interesting to see the change

Chris (15:13.698)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (15:16.304)

and Kenny Atkinson had talked after the game that maybe he just needed to give better halftime speeches. Chris, did you ask about if he gave a different speech than he’s used to giving at the break?

Chris (15:28.308)

No, I didn’t. But the players mentioned how they were more focused and they were more aware of the third quarter thing because of everything that Kenny had been preaching to them over the last couple of days on the off day film session. And then once again, in shoot around the third quarter was like the top bullet point going into this game against Indiana. So it was pretty clear that that Kenny made it a point of emphasis. And it was pretty clear that he wanted to make the team aware of just

how bad defensively they had been in third quarters, not just recently, but throughout the course of the year, like he brought up the stat. And you know, when Kenny brings up a stat during pregame or postgame, it’s because he’s had that given to him, because he’s asked one of his assistants to go find that, one of his analytic guys to go find that, because he wants to bring that point home.

And he likes to use numbers to do that. So the fact that he was fully aware of where the Cavs rank in terms of third quarter defense, the entire season in the NBA, I get something that he brought to the players attention. And the Cavs are 24th in the NBA in third quarter defense. And he brought that up multiple times in his pregame with us. And he brought that up with the players as well.

So it’s not a surprise to me. Like this is what the Cavs do. They respond, right? They respond to Kenny. They respond to quote unquote adversity. They don’t allow losses to fester. They make the adjustments that they need to make. But when they put their mind to fixing something, they go and fix it. And it’s not a surprise to me that they made sure.

that they played the third quarter the way that they did tonight on the heels of what happened Sunday on the heels of everything that Kenny talked to them about in the last couple of days leading up to tonight’s game. because that’s just what they do. They have responded to Kenny. They have bought into Kenny Foley and it’s, it’s happened every single time. There’s any kind of slippage or any kind of blip. Like remember

Chris (17:50.016)

Earlier this year, when we were talking about the funk that they were in defensively and you know, where did the Cavs defensive identity go and why are they one of the worst inconsistent defenses in the NBA of like the top tier defenses? And then what happened? They figured it out. They made the adjustments. They stopped the quote unquote slippage.

And they once again jumped back into the top 10 in terms of overall defensive rating because that’s what they do. they can’t like, who was it? One of the players said it perfectly. Kenny Atkinson is a problem solver. He’s not a problem announcer. And they constantly solve problems together as a cohesive unit.

And they were great in the third quarter and that’s ultimately what won them the game.

Ethan Sands (18:45.022)

Chris, there goes that buzzword again, right? Solution. It’s like that is what Kenny Atkinson has continued to bring to the table this season. It didn’t matter that Taj Roome was out and he might’ve been the perfect solution to solving the problem on Sunday because he has the steady hand that we have all become accustomed to to run the pace of the offense how he desires, not exactly how the defense wants them to run. And that’s also a part of what

Chris (18:49.176)

Hehehe.

Ethan Sands (19:13.382)

Indiana Pacers head coach Rick Carlisle said during the game on the TNT broadcast, he was like, we are doing what we want on the defensive end. We are making them speed out and then pushing the ball back at them. So we need to do that. And then Donovan was being guarded by arguably one of their better defenders in Nimhart at the end of the game, because that was the matchup that they wanted. Carlisle literally said, all right, you have Donovan. Everybody else will figure it out. And then

Chris (19:33.123)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (19:41.39)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (19:42.076)

We talk about one of the most clutch players of the season, Darius Garland, who hasn’t had the, or didn’t have the best game coming into the fourth quarter. But then he dropped 13 points of it, 13 of his 24 points in the fourth quarter. and he’s still one of the best, offensive players in the fourth quarter, right? When you talk about guys that have played at least 10 games in the clutch, his offensive rating, 154.5.

Chris, like it’s outlandish. It doesn’t make sense. you talk about how his cares the vert has a plus minus of 71.5 in those minutes too. like it’s not plus minus, sorry, a net rating of 71.5 in those minutes. So to be able to see Donovan Mitchell take over the first quarter in the first half, albeit, and then say Darius Garland, hey,

Donovan’s going to get guarded by their top defender or in their eyes, their top defender. We need you to pick up your productivity, your efficiency, all these other things and him being able to do that and lead them in the fourth quarter and kind of stretch out the lead enough so that they can put the reserves in. That’s who Darius has become. And it’s a narrative that he is changing. And we’ve talked a lot about reputation on this podcast, but coming into the season, he wasn’t known for closing games. It was actually the opposite.

And now he’s gotten to the point where he’s earning the conversation of being placed in the Clutch Player of the Year conversation. And Chris, I know he had some something happen during the game. I don’t want to speculate, but he was getting looked at on the sideline by Steve Spiro and it looked like a knee injury. looked like something to do with that area of his body after he slipped. Do you have anything more on that situation as well?

Chris (21:08.405)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (21:26.061)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (21:38.294)

He was fine. No treatment, no ice around his knee. And he scored 13 points in the fourth quarter. So he was fine. He said there’s nothing to worry about. It was just something that was bothering him throughout the course of the game. And I think the other important point about all of this, and you’re right, Darius in the fourth quarter. And I don’t know that the Cavs envisioned this specific thing or this specific blueprint, but it was Donovan in the first half. It was Evan Mobley in the third quarter and it was Darius Garland in the fourth

So like they’re three most important players. And again, this is no disrespect to Jared Allen, but he is the fourth member of the core four. think everybody understands that just like Kevin Love was the third member of the big three during the golden era of Cavs basketball. The three most important players for the Cavs, like all had stretches of dominance where they picked up the scoring slack.

where they overwhelmed the opponent, where they attacked a specific mismatch that they had. And I thought the beauty of the fourth quarter for Darius Garland is that Donovan and Darius were playing off of each other. Donovan was still involved in the, he wasn’t the finisher, he wasn’t the guy making the shots, but he was still involved in the actions. He was still a threat. He was still somebody that the defense had to worry about. And Kenny Atkinson mentioned it post game.

There was a play down the stretch late in the fourth quarter where it was a two-man action between Donovan and Darius and Donovan set a ghost screen for the reason of not that he wanted to get the ball because he knew that you know if he slipped that screen that the defenders were going to go with him. So the entire intention of that play was to draw attention, take it away from Darius,

so that he could get a step on his defender and finish in the lane. And that’s exactly what happened. Donovan set the screen, it was a ghost screen, he slipped, the defenders went to him, and Darius attacked off the dribble. It was entirely designed for Darius to get downhill and finish in the lane. And it’s that sort of thing that can make the Cavs so dangerous. Pick your poison.

Chris (24:01.154)

Are you gonna go with Donovan Mitchell? Are you gonna try and stay in front of Darius? And when Donovan’s having the kind of knight that he had tonight, leading into those possessions, the Cavs can use him as a decoy. They can use him in those actions in a different kind of way. And Donovan is willing to be used as a decoy. And Donovan is selfless enough to be used as a decoy. Because the only thing that matters to him is that they win games.

And Donovan talked about it after the game that, you know, him and Darius, their first year together, they were trying to figure it out. They were starting to figure it out how to best play off of each other. Last year, he said it didn’t go very well for a variety of reasons, but they’re really getting it this year. They’re playing so well off of each other and they’re learning, okay, what works for Darius? What works for Donovan?

How is Donovan going to read a certain play? How is Darius going to read a certain play? Are they going to be on the same page? And when you can involve, you know, your two best ball handlers and two best shot creators in the same action, late in games, and they play that well off each other, and they’re in that much sink, good luck to an opposing defense.

Ethan Sands (25:21.256)

They’re a dangerous duo, Chris, no doubt about it. And like you mentioned, being able to start with Donovan and then have him go on that kind of tear where you know you have to stay with him. Obviously he’s Donovan Mitchell, so he’s going to have that kind of gravity anyway, but you put up 27 points in the first half. Teams aren’t going to care if you don’t have that great of a third quarter, they’re sticking with you in the fourth. And you also mentioned Evan Mobley, and I think that’s a great point. And I’ll end the podcast here.

point behind Evan Mobley putting up 13 points in the fourth quarter, three of those becoming, three of those coming from behind the arc, right? Like he is elevating his game. We continue to talk about it, Christian. It doesn’t get old because he had three threes in the third quarter, right? Alone. And you talk about how he had 20, he ended the game with 22 points. Like Evan Mobley being able to have confidence and step into threes,

Chris (25:57.72)

Third quarter.

Chris (26:11.714)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (26:20.506)

Above the break, hitting two on the corner, whatever you want to think about for a defender that came into the season saying, Evan will be able to try and body me up in the paint. That’s not going to work. I’m a little bit stronger than him. Now he’s doing that on top of making threes. Like it adds an entirely different dynamic, not just to his game, but also to how opposing teams have to guard the entire Cleveland Cavaliers roster. This is what they envisioned when they were like, we’re going to go to a five out lineup.

and then still be able to play in our zone on the other side and think anybody that comes into the paint is going to either think about it, about going up against Evan Mobley or try and dish out. we have Caris Levert, Max Strupp, Dean Wade, Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, all being guys that can get into the passing lane and disrupt that as well. So I just wanted to give credit because obviously we don’t talk about it enough with Jared Allen does.

on this podcast because again, he is the fourth member of the core four. had 16 points and nine rebounds, but Evan Mobley 22 points, 13 rebounds, three offensive boards. I just think it goes to show that the Cavs, when Donovan, Darius and Evan are hitting on all different cylinders, they’re a really difficult team to beat, especially if they continue to play at their defensive caliber that we’ve seen capable.

Chris (27:48.494)

Ethan, I think the best way to put it is that Evan controls their ceiling. He controls their ceiling as an organization and he controls their ceiling on the offensive end of the floor. Because V can be that respected as a shooter and all of a sudden teams are going to close out on him. It just opens things up for everybody else. And it certainly opens things up for Evan to attack off the dribble. And if, if a guy is going to close out on Evan, he’s got the foot speed, he’s got

quickness, he’s got the agility to get a sliver of space to get a step on the defender and now he can finish through contacts. Now he can finish with either hand. It’s just a whole different element to his game that’s opened up and a whole different element to the Cavs game that has opened up as well. And tonight was the seventh time this year already that Evan has made at least three threes in a single game.

through his first three years in the NBA, he did that once. One time in his first three years. And he’s already done it seven times this year. And in the words of Evan Mobley, there’s more to come because he still thinks that, you know, there are different facets to his game that are going to continue to get better. And he’s going to continue to work on them because he’s just

He’s never satisfied and he has this insatiable desire to become the best player in the NBA. Like he’s not demonstrative. He, isn’t braggadocious, but like that fire burns within and like he understands not just how important he is to this organization.

but I think he’s finally starting to understand how great he can be. And I talked to him in the locker room after the game about just feeling like he’s being rewarded for all of the stuff that he’s doing behind the scenes and just how it validates everything that he has done and how good that makes him feel and how much confidence that gives him.

Chris (30:09.064)

And you can tell, like there is no hesitation when it comes to a three point shot. Like, yeah, sure. Sometimes a defender is going to close out on him hard and he’s going to pump fake and he’s going to swing it. And then he’s going to go down in the post. Like that to me is not really an example of him passing up on a three in the same way that it has been in years past. That’s like the defense closing out on him and kind of dictating what is the best thing for him to do from there.

And instead of forcing the three, he feels like there’s an advantage that the offense is getting by having that defender come out to the perimeter, close out hard, be out of position and stuff like that. it’s just, it’s just something that, that creates a different ceiling for this Cavs offense when you can play with Evan Mobley at not full time center, but like a lot of minutes at center and have a five out line.

and have five guys on the floor all at the same time who can pass, dribble, and shoot. And him being the one that’s guarded primarily by the biggest defender, the rim protector, and that guy being away from the rim. It’s just a different element to this team. And Evan deserves all the credit in the world. And for him to take his three-point shooting to this level,

where he has already had seven games, where he’s made three or more threes in a game. Like that’s incredibly impressive and he deserves a lot of credit for that level of growth in such, I would say a short time, because like he certainly wasn’t this in terms of confidence, in terms of decisiveness and in terms of ability as a three point shooter last year.

Ethan Sands (32:02.556)

I mean, Chris, when you really look into it, like around this time is when he really dedicated himself to becoming a better three point shooter. He was getting back from the arthroscopic knee surgery. The calves were beginning to shoot more threes because they had to because Darius and Evan were out. They were making up for the lack of offense with more three point shots. Obviously three is more than two. So you see all of those things and

the confidence that’s oozing off of Evan Mobley. I hope people that are watching like post-game interviews or behind the scenes stuff are seeing just how he’s talking is different from how he was just a year ago. Like this is not the same person and it is translated onto the floor. Like whether it is his shot has been silky smooth and he’s releasing it quicker. It’s not just like he’s not hesitating and taking the shot.

Chris (32:44.311)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (32:58.268)

His shot itself is quicker than it was last year because there’s the confidence in there and all those different things. And I just think you mentioned the numbers of how he’s shooting and just at what clip he’s shooting them at. And I think it’s interesting to talk about a player who was so. He was not thought of as a three point shooter. He was more of what do we do if he’s on the perimeter? Can we get him there? And now it’s to the point where.

Kenny Atkinson is saying, we don’t want that to become his entire game. We don’t want him to turn into Brook Lopez, where he’s solely on the perimeter, like with the Milwaukee Bucks. We still want him to make the decision to go inside if he catches a defender in the air and can get into his dribble. There was a play today against Pascal Siakamore. He drove to the rim and Pascal walled up, but Evan hit a spin move and laid it up.

Chris (33:35.182)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (33:56.656)

It was beautiful. It was exactly what you want from a guy that has the ability to be a powerhouse, the finesse to be a good shooter, but also someone with the skill to be soft and have touch around the rim. And I think it’s just something we have to monitor going forward because of what he’s been showing that he’s capable of. mean, Chris, he’s shooting 42.9 % from three point range. It’s insane. The amount of growth that he’s had, and we keep talking about this leap, like

Chris (34:20.279)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (34:26.334)

I don’t think it’s… Obviously for people who haven’t watched it’s still a leap, but like this has become the new reality of Evan Mobley. I’m not saying he’s gonna be a 40 % shooter by the time the season’s over, but like it’s trending in that direction.

Chris (34:43.724)

And the other thing, Ethan, is he’s just scoring in so many different ways from so many different spots on the floor. So he’s not lining up the same place. The defense just doesn’t know where he’s going to be. The defense doesn’t know, again, who’s going to touch the ball on a given possession because there’s more diversity. There’s more…

unpredictability and there are times where Evan is coming down the floor as a trailer and he’s stepping into trailing threes. There are other times where he’s running to the corner and he gets, you know, catch and shoot opportunities off of driving kicks. There are other times where, you know, he’s going to be used as the ball handler and inverted pick and rolls and he’s going to be able to overpower a backpedaling defender. There are other times where he’s going to be

used in the post because he’s got a mismatch and then it’s just about him going to work. There are other times where he’s going to catch a lob from Darius Garland or Donovan Mitchell. So it’s just the way that he is attacking a defense and the way that the Cavs are attacking a defense is so different from years past. And I think the variety that Evan is showing within his game is also really, really impressive because he’s just not

being pigeonholed as a guy who needs his teammates to set him up or needs his teammates to assist on all of his made baskets. He can create on his own now. He can create off the dribble on his own now. He can create in the post on his own now. He can finish left-handed, right-handed. He can do turnaround fadeaways. He can do jump hooks. He can do layups. He can do dunks.

He can do threes from the corner, threes above the break, threes top of the key. You know what I’m saying? Like the things that he’s showing offensively, you know, I don’t know like what the flaw is that people can point to now when it comes to Evan Mobley.

Chris (36:47.362)

you know, for a couple of years it was always, well, Evan Mobley can’t do this or Evan Mobley can’t do this. And it’s like that ignored and that was disappointing because that ignored like all the things that he could do and all the things that made him special. But now when you’re talking about Evan Mobley, what do you say he can’t do? What can’t he do?

Ethan Sands (37:10.213)

Nothing.

Chris (37:10.382)

I don’t know that there’s anything within the offense that he can’t do or that he’s not comfortable trying. He’s not comfortable doing and it’s just, it’s been really, really impressive to see from him.

Ethan Sands (37:24.89)

And Chris, we’ve gotten to the point where the Cavs have now ended the Pacers six game win streak, arguably one of the hottest teams in the NBA. And now they get to go face the team that they broke their 15 game win streak a couple days ago. And we also have to make mention, OKC has won 18 of their last 19 games. The one game they lost, the Cleveland Cavaliers. That’s why there’s so much hype around this next game. Again, it’s because

It’s one called the rematch like a regular season game being called the rematch is is extreme, but it’s great. It’s great to see because it was beautiful basketball in the first place, but I’m really hype about it. And I know you are excited to get over to OKC and witness that, especially with their fans and how they get out there. But Chris.

Chris (38:15.032)

I mean, how could you not be excited about that? And the other thing, Ethan, is I brought a belt on this road trip. You know, the last time that we went to Oklahoma City, everybody that listens to the podcast knows I had to go into the Western Country outlet store in the stockyards, basically in the middle of nowhere. And I went into this Western outlet store and

The only kind of belts that they had were like $50 and up. Genuine, authentic leather. They don’t sell stuff that you can get at Target. They don’t sell stuff that you can get at like Walmart. Like this is real legit belts. And you know, when I went in there, they were trying to sell me on a big old buckle. They’re like, come on now. That’s the staple around these parts. You know, the big flashy buckle.

and I avoided it. I was like, you know what? I get it, but can you point me in the direction of your more normal belts, let’s say. But then I looked at the price tag and I was like, $50? Like, what? Are you serious? But genuine authentic leather. So I brought that specific belt with me on this trip.

because like I wanted to make use of it. It’s not one that I always use. I have a bunch of belts that I kind of rotate, but like if I spent $50 on it last year because I forgot a belt, like you better believe I’m going to try and get my money’s worth and I’m going to make use of it. And now I can tell my wife that, you know, we’re not going to have a $50 charge plus tax from the sarsaparilla shop in the stockyards or whatever it is. So, you know, that was a big talking point. Like,

As Kenny Atkinson was coming into his pregame press conference, was having that conversation. was sharing that story with somebody and he looked at me and he was like, what did you do now? Like, what did I just walk into? This just went off the rails before the press conference even started. And he was like, I should expect that with you by now. So yeah, my belt.

Chris (40:26.378)

and my purchase and me contemplating a big honkin’ like eagle on my belt buckle. How cool would I look? Like that would be me, right? Like a big old eagle, a bald eagle, or an American flag or something? No, no, no, no. That wouldn’t be me. I went into that store and I was as uncomfortable as I’ve ever been in any store in my entire life because there wasn’t anything that I would wear in that store.

I contemplated a cowboy hat just for fun. But like the one thing in that store that I would actually wear and purchase was a belt. So kudos to me for actually remembering to pack my belt this time. And I remembered underwear and I remembered socks. So, you know, it’s already a victory for me on this road trip and I can’t wait to get to Oklahoma City. It’s going to be a lot of fun. And that in that environment.

Ethan Sands (41:19.496)

So.

Chris (41:23.68)

It is one of the best environments in the entire NBA. I can’t wait.

Ethan Sands (41:27.55)

So the calves are one and O on this road trip and Chris is apparently one and O.

Chris (41:33.448)

I’m three, you know, are you kidding me? Underwear, socks, belt. I’m notorious for getting-

Ethan Sands (41:36.946)

Did you pack a toothbrush? Did you pack a toothbrush or did you go to the hotel? God.

Chris (41:41.238)

I did. In fact, not only did I pack a toothbrush, but before I left on this road trip, I changed the battery in my, in my, whatever it’s called, pulsating toothbrush. What are those things called? Sonicare. it’s a Sonicare. Yeah.

Ethan Sands (41:57.542)

Mechanical, mechanical toothbrush? Sonicare. Okay. You don’t have one of the ones where you can just stick it on the charger, you have one with batteries in it?

Chris (42:06.67)

So I had one of those. I had one of those. is somewhere in Phoenix from last year’s road trip when I left like my travel bag that had my Sonicare $200, my Cologne $80. It was like $500 worth of stuff. And I left it, I had to have left it in a hotel in Phoenix, but I called them immediately after, like 15 minutes after when I realized and they never found it.

So I don’t know if somebody took it.

Ethan Sands (42:37.768)

They never do. They never do, Chris. They never do. Hotels never find that kind of stuff.

Chris (42:43.724)

So ever since then, you know, when I come on these trips, I don’t bring the actual Sonicare that goes on the charger that’s like the $200, the main Sonicare that you could get. I get the mini one, the mini one that you get in like the travel size area, and it comes with a battery because it dies quickly. Let me just tell you that much. So before I left on this trip, like I was all over this trip. Before I left on this trip,

I stuck a new battery in there and it is wonderful. It is working the way that it should when it actually has a new battery. So I feel really good about my hygiene on this trip too.

Ethan Sands (43:24.88)

I just want to tell, like, for the listeners that are still here, like, the fact that, like, Chris is being so, like, different than what he said last year. Like, he used to say that he would always either go to the CVS or go downstairs and get a toothbrush from the hotel room. So to hear that he had a mechanical toothbrush, like, a toothbrush that you have to charge, and he would bring it and then lost it, like, I’m over here just remembering all the stories that we talked about. I’m like, so did that cause…

Chris (43:37.986)

You’re winning.

Ethan Sands (43:54.46)

you to just go to the hotel lobby and get that? Or was that like, man.

Chris (44:01.516)

Well, here’s the thing, a couple of things. Now in these hotels, they have changed some things. They have changed some of the toothpaste that they give you. It’s not stuff that I like using. And they have changed the toothbrush that they give you. And like some of these toothbrushes that I’ve gotten in the past are like gum ripping firm. And it’s tough. The other thing is there are certain

Areas where you can stay where there is going to be a CVS where there is going to be a target where there is going to be a Walgreens and Because I’m now a pro on this beat and I’m in year 11. I know what cities those are

Chris (44:48.15)

Here’s the other thing it is freaking freezing outside here in Indianapolis and The fewer times that I can go outside or to a store and walk to one The better it’s going to be for me and it’s the same thing in Minneapolis and You know the hotel in Oklahoma City is nowhere near

Ethan Sands (45:08.405)

So.

Chris (45:12.768)

one of those kinds of stores. I kinda had to be on top of my game here to avoid a dreadful, miserable experience of going outside when it’s like negative two degrees in Minneapolis because I’m in search of socks or underwear or I need to find a CVS or a Target to get a better toothbrush than the gum ripping ones that they have at some of these hotels. Like those things are violent.

Like my teeth did not feel good after using some of those. So I don’t know if they changed their provider. I don’t know if they changed their partnership, but they aren’t the same toothbrushes that they used to be. And I got that rude awakening toward the end of last season. So I had to, you know, I had to reflect. had to refocus. I had to do exactly what the Cavs did tonight going into their game against the, the Indiana Pacers.

And that, my friends, is how you bring this thing back full circle. Thank you very much.

Ethan Sands (46:12.026)

All right, 10 years radio, Chris, there you go. And for the listeners that are still here, there’s your first long winded toothbrush slash packing story with Chris Fidor. I hope you enjoyed it and with more to come, especially as these road trips get longer and longer. This is just the first of this three game road trip. But with that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of The Wine.

Chris (46:25.932)

More to come.

Ethan Sands (46:41.47)

and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Self-Tex. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com slash Cavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy.

This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’all be safe. We out.